Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V09_5/V9_580.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #580

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 9 : Issue 580

Today's Topics:
   Re: space news from June 19 AW&ST, and Apollo-anniversary edito
             NSS Hotline Update for Space
        Re: Catch-A-Planet (was:Re:Curiosity)
             SPACE ACTIVIST ALERT
             Re: PHONE TREE ALERT
               Re: Space Quest
   Re: space news from June 19 AW&ST, and Apollo-anniversary edito
      Re: Does this proprosal make sense ? (was RE: SPACE QUEST)
        Re: Catch-A-Planet (was:Re:Curiosity)
 Re: space news from June 19 AW&ST, and Apollo-anniversary editorial
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 89 07:40:48 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com![e-mail]  (H Keith Henson)
Subject: Re: space news from June 19 AW&ST, and Apollo-anniversary edito

In the referenced article, [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) wrote:

>In all the fuss about lunar bases and Mars missions, it is easy to lose
>track of one big, unpleasant, nasty fact that has gone from unlikely to
>certain in the last 20 years.  Unless something changes radically...

>None of us is going.

>Ever.

Henry went on with excellent political suggestions about HR2674 (which I
have been working on this last week, so I didn't feel guilty.)  But
I have to respectfully disagree with him.  I *am* going, even if it
takes 200 years, or we have to have well developed nanotechnology to
afford the hardware.  I am within a few years of 50, so how can I think
about being alive in 30 years, much less think of going into space?

Simple, I signed up several years ago for cryonic suspension (if and
when I need it).  While the last year and a half has partly been spent
in defending my cryonics organization (Alcor) from the Riverside
coroner, I find that my enthusiams for working on space project has
greatly improved since I have at least some chance of benifiting from
my efforts.  This isn't for everyone (it took Drexler years to convince
me that freezing saves enough for nanotechnology to fix) but for a
truly dedicated spacer, this is one way to get there, "even if we
have to walk."  Keith Henson--A founder of the (gone but not forgotten)
L5 Society.  (PS--the Riveside Grand Jury recently recomended *abolishing*
the coroners office)

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 89 19:09:00 GMT
From: arisia!cdp![e-mail]
Subject: NSS Hotline Update for Space


This is the National Space Society's Space Hotline, update -
Space Day, July 20, 1989.

At 10 am this morning President George Bush on the steps of the
National Air and Space Museum commemorated the 20th anniversary
of the Apollo 11 mission which landed the first men on the Moon.
He went on to stress the need to look forward, and that in the
21st century peoples of all nations will leave the Earth for
voyages of discovery and exploration.  He stated that now is the
time to commit ourselves to a sustained program of human
exploration of the solar system and the permanent settlement of
space.

"Our goal is to establish the US as the preeminent space fairing
nation, from the voyages of Columbus to the triumph of the Moon
itself...."  He implied that space exploration is a worth-while
venture from an economic stand point by stating the Apollo
program paid down to Earth dividends, and the human exploration
of the Moon would have been a bargain at twice the price.
"Apollo is the best return on investment since Leonardo DiVinci
bought his first sketch pad."

In his speech, he announced his long range vision as the
completion of the Space Station Freedom in the 1990s, a permanent
return to the Moon at the turn of the century, and then the human
exploration of Mars.  Each mission will succesively build upon
the next.  He added that the future of the space program lies
within the hands of Congress and ultimately in the hands of the
public.

It is President Bush's intention that the 30th anniversary of
Apollo 11 should be celebrated not in Washington, DC, but on the
fully operational Space Station Freedom.  He went on to add that
the space station will serve as a bridge to the solar system and
our own fragile Earth. "International initatives are need to seek
new solutions to global environmental problems, and Mission to
Planet Earth is an important initiative in our national space
program.  The Space Station Freedom is the necessary next step
for sustatined human exploration."

The President charged his "right hand man" Vice President Dan
Quayle and his National Space Council to work out the specific
time frame, milestones and resources needed to return to the Moon
permanently and go on to explore Mars.

He closed his speech by saying the dream of reaching new stars
and exploring new worlds will be realized not in his generation
or even his childrens generation, but we must begin with this
generation. "We can't make the next great leap for mankind
tomorrow unless we take the single step today."

The NSS mourns the death of a valued and visionary member of the
Board of Directors, George A. Koopman, president and co-founder
of the American Rocket Company. Mr. Koopman died Wednesday of
injuries sustained in an automobile accident. He was forty-four
years old.

AMROC officials affirmed that preparations for the company's
first space launch, scheduled for August 14, 1989, will continue
as planned. James Bennett, AMROC's vp for External Affairs, said
"This represents an enormous loss to AMROC. Koopman was a true
space pioneer, not only by virtue of his key role in founding and
sustaining AMROC, but also his long support of and participation
in organizations such as the National Space Society. The
realization of George Koopman's dream of creating affordable
access to space will be his memorial."

Koopman's family has requested that in lieu of flowers,
contributions to one of several charitable organizations be made.
NSS has been selected and will set up a trust fund in his name to
continue the visionary goals he pioneered. Contributions will be
excepted by the NSS to the George A. Koopman Memorial Fund.

This has been the National Space Society's Space Hotline updated
SpaceDay, July 20th, 1989.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 89 15:36:48 GMT
From: cwjcc!mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!csri.toronto.edu![e-mail]  (Wayne Hayes)
Subject: Re: Catch-A-Planet (was:Re:Curiosity)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James P. Galasyn) writes:
>
> Off-the-wall observation here, which probably belongs in
> talk.religion.newage:  the Dogon tribe, among others in Africa, have rather
> precise astronomical information on the period of Sirius B, the white
> dwarf companion of Sirius.  It can't be seen by the naked eye (by a long
> shot), yet this knowledge is thousands of years old.

Read _Broca's_Brain_, by Carl Sagan. He debunks this in chapter 6,
"White Dwafs and Little Green Men".

    The story goes basically like this. Sirius B was discovered in 1862
by Alvan Clark. At the time, white dwarfs hadn't been discovered. It was
realized that Sirius B was quite an extraordinary star, so much so that the
story make headlines in regular newspapers, so the average guy-on-the-street
knew about Sirius B.

    Then 70 years later, in the 1930's, Marcel Griaule, an anthropologist
with a knowledge of astronomy, discovers the Dogon's incredible myth about
Sirius B. He also discovers that they know about Jupiter's 4 moons and
Saturn's rings. It appears the Dogon have knowledge that could only have
come from extra-terrestrials. However there was 70 years between the
discovery of Sirius B and Griaule's account of their legends. It is not
inconceivable that the Dogon had had contact with other Westerners who
told them of Sirius B, and then subsequently incorperated this story
into their myths.

    The important thing to note is that the Dogon are not as dogmatic
about their myths as most western religions are, so they are not above
changing their myths which are, by the way, passed on completely by
word of mouth. Sagan cites another tribe in an adjacent valley that
suffered from a rare disease called Kuru, a virus. In 1957, a physician
studying this disease showed the tribespeople what the virus looked like
though a microscope. A few months later, a different phyisician (not
knowing that they had observed the virus through a microscope) asked
them to describe what they know about the disease. Part of the description
told of an "invisible evil", accompanied by a diagram in the sand that
looked very similar to the Kuru virus. The tribespeople maintained that
this was part of their legend, and only later did the physicians realize
that the myth had been changed to account for the knew information of
the first physician. (They probably weren't trying to dupe us, that's
just the way their verbal legends grow.)

    Anyway, there is of course no firm evidence that the Dogon
had been visited by Westerners before Griaule, but the popularity of
Sirius B and the fact that there WERE Westerners exploring that area
before Griaule seems a much more likely explanation that Extra-
terrestrial visitors. Read Broca's Brain for more info.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the pod bay doors, HAL."   "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
Wayne Hayes    INTERNET: [e-mail]    CompuServe: 72401,3525

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 89 22:18:27 GMT
From: agate![e-mail]  (William Baxter)
Subject: SPACE ACTIVIST ALERT

Call the Space Science and Applications Subcommittee Office
(202/225-7858) and the office of the Chairman of the same committee,
Bill Nelson (202/225-3671).  Ask them to hold hearings on HR2674, the
Space Transportation Services Purchase Act of 1989, as soon as possible.

If you want to engage in additional pro-space activity, take a copy of
HR2674 to your congresman's office and convince him to cosponsor it.
Send me email if you need a copy.

William Baxter

ARPA: web@{garnet,brahms,math}.Berkeley.EDU
UUCP: {sun,dual,decwrl,decvax,hplabs,...}!ucbvax!garnet!web

CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN NOW AND SCREAM AT HIM UNTIL HE ADMITS THAT ONLY
GOVERNMENT CAN RUN A SPACE PROGRAM

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 89 14:41:05 GMT
From: att!shuxd!attdso!rolls!mtuxo!mtgzy!mtgzx![e-mail]  (d.l.skran)
Subject: Re: PHONE TREE ALERT

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (William Baxter) writes:
>
> Call Congressman Robert Roe (D-NJ) at 202/225-5751.  Ask him, as
> chairman of the House Science, Space and Technology Committee, to hold
> hearings on HR2674, the Space Transportation Services Purchase Act of
> 1989, as soon as possible.
>
>
> William Baxter
>

I would like to remind people that although this is a good idea,
it IS NOT an official NSS phonetree alert. In general, any posting
from Baxter or Bowery should be regarded as representing only their
opinions.

Dale Skran

------------------------------

Date: 22 Jul 89 21:39:24 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Dan Pezely)
Subject: Re: Space Quest


Here's a summary of e-mailed replies in reference to my postings about
The Space Quest Foundation.

I originally quoted Seth Hollub with an incorrect e-mail address.  The
cocrrect one is <[e-mail]>.  Sorry.

Seth brought up the question of Anti-trust problems, and later shed some
more light on it:

>Since the advent of R. Reagan and G. Bush in 1980, the vagaries of
>the anti-monopoly law have changed to be more liberal. That is,
>one can run more of a monopoly than before. Consortia like
>Sematech and such are living proof of our ability to form
>such economic-social groups. (I think they are helpful for now
>on the world market).

>Hopefully when we're successful those who follow in our footsteps
>will not curse our solution. We'll need a way to dissolve the
>consortium when it becomes right & proper to avoid strangling
>things NASA-DOD-like.

If The Space Quest Foundation just sets up the adminestrative
coproration, then there shouldn't be any problems of outside agencies
having too much control.

               *    *    *

From: Marc Ringuette <[e-mail]>,

>I have similar reservations to those of Fred Walter.  What role
>do you see a volunteer group playing in the scheme of things?

That's what we'll need to get things off the ground.  Whether we decide
to change the status of the volunteers, that can be done later.

>It seems to me that requirements for a successful effort are
>  (a) a good, obvious reason for setting up such an agency
>  (b) credibility and negotiating skill
>What is the reason for its existence, and do you see the skills and
>credibility being available?

I think that enough qualified people would come forward to help once
we're sufficiently organized.

>I have an idea which I have based on the skills I see available around
>me (physical sciences students): the construction of small satellites
>and exploratory probes using cleverness and appropriate use of snazzy
>technology.  Its answers to the key questions are
>  (a) the reason:  there are lots of un-sexy experiments and exploration
>    (e.g.  search for water on the moon) that just aren't being done, but
>    are genuinely possible with a small directed effort
>  (b) the ability: Graduate students are the manpower; university robotics
>    and physics labs are the location; and very little money is
>    required.  Piggyback space on commercial launches is rumored to
>    be available but is currently the biggest question mark.

I am a sophmore at the University of Delaware.  And as I told Marc, I
hope to work on such projects when I am in grad school.

               *    *    *

Keith Henson <[e-mail]> (if it bounces try [e-mail])
wrote in responce to my original posting:

>>I will do anything I can to live in a space station, or I will die trying!

>*I* am making the best effort possible to get into space, *even if it takes
>more than a normal life span.*  Details on request.

I think that I would have lived a full life even if my children's
generation was the first to be able to LIVE in space stations.

               *    *    *

Anyone else wish to comment?
- Daniel

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 89 04:41:11 GMT
From: quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu!rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu![e-mail]  (JOHN BRIDGE)
Subject: Re: space news from June 19 AW&ST, and Apollo-anniversary edito



     Is this guy for real?  Whew!

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 89 05:02:31 GMT
From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Does this proprosal make sense ? (was RE: SPACE QUEST)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Daniel Pezely) writes:
>...contractors will certainly produce and sell the parts with a lower
>price tag to a subsidiary than they would to NASA.  After all, NASA will
>pay what the contractors think they can get away with.

Very true.  I'm told that if you take a standard piece of off-the-shelf
equipment, and run it through NASA's cost models (which tell NASA how
much it ought to cost), and compare the result to the catalog price,
you begin to understand why NASA's projects are so costly.
--
1961-1969: 8 years of Apollo.  |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
1969-1989: 20 years of nothing.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 89 04:11:25 GMT
From: mailrus!sharkey!clmqt![e-mail]  (J.A. Fegan)
Subject: Re: Catch-A-Planet (was:Re:Curiosity)

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (James P. Galasyn):
>
>  Now, I wouldn't want to be living next to any blue-white giants like
>  Sirius, but maybe somebody can.


ok so what's wrong with living next to a blue-white giant?

--
Never be backward wen visitors kum;      | mailrus!sharkey!lopez!preacher
Don't sit there quiet like a sap         |--------------------------------
Be sociable!  Tell'em wot momma called pa
When she found the maid parked on his lap. -- Tha Return Uv Snowshoe Al

------------------------------

Date: 23 Jul 89 07:05:09 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Jonathan Patrick Leech)
Subject: Re: space news from June 19 AW&ST, and Apollo-anniversary editorial

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
>(Voyager) is an Apollo-era leftover with *NO* planned followup.

    What are Galileo and Cassini, chopped liver?
--
    Jon Leech ([e-mail])
    Apple Integrated Systems
    __@/

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V9 #580
*******************